ADVICE NEEDEED ON HUGE PROJECT! HD+CG For Film OUTPUT

Hello There!

I really hope anyone out there can help me in this desesperate hour.

My intention here is that my little expermient can benefit other filmakers with similar problems, and similar dreams...

Two years ago, I wrote a Sci-fi script for a seven minute short I had in mind for some time. It was kind of orwellian, dealing with social alienation, individual dispair, and some of the old technology vs humans premise that's around in films and literature since the 20's. (even earlier)

It had tons of cinematic and technical challenges, because it was soposed to be sort of a Fritz Lang's "Metropolis" but with new technology.
The movie is Black and white, soundless (dialog is made on inter titles just like in silent pictures) and depicts dark characters against a decaying urban setting.

My idea was to shoot characters in front of a blue screen and incorporate the city as a c.g. element.

Well, as weird as it could sound, I managed to win a Colombian Goverment grant for short production (I live In Colombia, more exactly, Bogota) and was able to hire the best DP around, rent a huge studio and a Sony CineAlta HD camera (F900),
and shot the god damn thing...
Now, I have almost a Terabyte of DPX files and a huge task over my shoulders. I don't have a nickle left (beacause the grant was only for production) so I have to do my own post.
My intended workflow is as follows:

Model, texture, light and animate the C.G. city
Track the camera
Arrange every C.G. element with the real world camera info.
Render out The C.G Plates
Remove Blue Screen
Compose C.G. with real footage
Edit
Export to targas, tiff's or cineaon's for 35mm Blowup
See it at theaters! (Got a prearrangment with a theater chain!)

So... What is the problem?

That real life is not like the movies and never anything is easy!
The C.G modelling part is taking forever, but it is almost done. The software I chose to work with is 3D Studio Max.

I am having some problems with the tracking part, because I started using Boujou and Matchmove, and neither one got me right tracking. I used before both these programs on other proyects and they seemed to work just fine. But here, with my HD 1080P sequences...they just went crazy and gave me very erratic results. A friend told me that the thing was that my shots were fixed shots and those programs are designed for complicated hand held shots. So, not very convinced by my friend's info, I made the tracking with the 3DStudio internal tracker. And to tell you the truth, the results don't satisfy me at all.
The characters Do seem to walk on the horizon and all, but the Lens never seems right. HELP PLEASE!

1.Do I have to use traditional artistic perspective theory to manualy track down the camera?
2. Or stick with the max Solution?

Well, i'm just on this fase of the post. I imagine that I will hve millions of other problems later on.

I am planning to do all the compositing on Discreet combustion 4 and remove the blue screen with it's internal chroma keyer. I don't now if I have to use my DPX sequences with the LOG to linear option..should I? My CG is in Open EXR and has to match with the live action footage...(My DPX 10BLOG FILES) SHould I convert the DPX to LIN so I can compose with the EXr's?
HERE is one of my greatest doubts...The proyect is intended for output for film and DVD...Should I remove the chroma key converting the color space of my files to linear?...Or SHould I key and color correct in log?..How should I Export the final edit for the 35mm blowup?...Does Combustion manage color profiles?..Do I even Need that?...What the F*&$·&! should I do!! i'm lost here.

IF anyone out there can give me a hand in anyway I wil be forever greatful (and of course will be compensated on the film's credits)

At this point i'm insecure of the technical choices i've made, and want to see other perspectives on the postproduction.
I thank you for taking the time to read this long and bizzare PLEDGE, and hope that some of you talented artists can help me.

Overall, I would want to share with you guys out there, that the biggest lesson i've learned doing this proyect, is that risking yourself for your passion...risking yourself for your dreams is the only way in life to be happy.

THANKS AGAIN. Good luck!

GERMAN ALBERTO PIÑEROS

Wow, man, you have alot of work ahead of you!

But don't worry, it's perfectly feasible! Honestly, I think you did the hard part - shooting it! Now is the easy part, it's just you and your computer!

Before I get into any specific answers, may I recommend that you read one book? This one: The DV Rebel's guide
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0321413644?tag ... 8QWSWK3X5&

It will answer so many questions for you! It's honestly the best book ever written for making movies on a desktop computer that are intended to be shown on film in a theater. After reading it, you will have a final Master fileset that you will use to make the film print or any compressed version you want. Seriously, check out the book. The book deals mostly in After Effects, though. Most of the techniques will cross over fine, however, as long as you know Combustion a little.

First, your tracking... Boujou and Matchmover should both be able to handle your footage just fine, although I've only dabbled in Boujou. My tracker of choice is Syntheyes. But you should be fine with what you have. Don't know if you saw this, but Zach made a tutorial about using Boujou.
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=3616

Honestly, the only person I think I've ever seen get good results from the 3dsMax built-in tracker is Tyson, who runs these forums, and he's a bit of a genius/prodigy, so his results aren't the typical user's experiences. Are you using the auto-track features of your tracking programs? Because that doesn't solve everything. If that's failing, you'll definitely have to really learn how to use the manual features, how to track things individually, and then create the track from that. But those programs are definitely capable of handling whatever footage you put into it. If your shots are fixed shots, you may not need to track them at all, though. Just set up the environment in Max. You mention the lens doesn't seem right - could it be lens distortion? hard to tell without some screenshots. But those tracking programs are perfectly capable of measuring the lens distortion, and Combustion should have a lens distortion effect/filter that you could use as well. Some people take the lens distortion out of the footage, composite, then put it back in. Other people just set up a camera that matches in Max.
Have you seen the one and only book on tracking? It deals with both programs you are using, so it should apply perfectly to you. Awesome book!
http://www.amazon.com/Matchmoving-Invis ... 0782144039

Unfortunately, I can't give much guidance on the use of Combustion. I haven't touched it since version 3.1. I was using it to pull keys fro "Starsky & Hutch", and just after that, After Effects started including Keylight keyer, which quickly became my favorite. Combustion should be able to handle Log and Lin and any color space you want to work in.

I've made a couple short movies now, but all my work was done through After Effects. Don't be insecure about the programs you've chosen! They are all great programs that can do exactly what you want them to do. It just may be tricky getting to that stage. I only use After Effects because that's the program I learned first, I'm most comfortable in it, and thus, it's become my favorite. Here's a thread where you can see my progress on my last short movie, if you want.
viewforum.php?f=38

For more specific help, you'd have to start posting screenshots and/or sample moves. It's very hard to judge what's wrong with your track without seeing a preview of your character in the shot and seeing how it's tracked in. There was one shot in my short where I wanted 3d missiles flying overhead. The shot is a completely handheld, free moving shot. I didn't even bother to 3d track it. I set up a virtual recreation of the scene in Max by just guessing distances, I didn't measure anything on set. I rendered the missiles out from that perspective and tracked them in After Effects, all 2d. I didn't even render smoke from 3d, just made it in 2d. Here's a screenshot where you can see my Max scene, and the view through the virtual camera.


I know this wouldn't work for integrating a 3d character into a scene, but, depending on the shot, sometimes it can be effective to just recreate the scene by eye. Check out that tutorial on Boujou that Zach made. Hopefully that can get you going.

Keep posting though, there's a bunch of smart people here, people who use all the programs you use.
And congrats on shooting your short! That's the really hard part!

Hello Hype how are you doing! I just read the posts on your short film. And they really make up a cool production diary.
Your film is heartfelt and veryoriginal. Not the cheesy superficial spoof junk you find often on the web, and even in theaters. I liked it very much and hope it did a good impression on the festivals. On the technical side, the effects and color correction are great, but over that i liked the script and your intention as a storyteller. Everything is perfectly suited for what you want to tell. No effect in the film is just "Eye Candy" I liked it very much and I see in you a good director and know that great things will come for you. Keep ON ROCKING MAN! Your work shows passion and great love for what you do. Passion for what you do is the best and only thing one needs to live a good life. Aronofsky's talks about that all the time...

I'm attatching one frame of my shot and my C.G so far. As you can see, something doesn't look right. I'm going to follow the boujou tutorial you adressed me to see if I can find what is the catch. Thank you very much for your input. Your welcome to my house anytime if you are comming to Colombia someday to shoot. I own a couple of PC's and a Sony Z1 if you need to shoot. And film rental houses have very very good prices here compared to the states. (besides having beautiful locations of any kind; jungle, Snow, Beaches modern and old cityscapes)

i'll surely keep you informed on the progress of my film, that, by the way is called "SERVICIOS PUBLICOS" or in english "THE UTILLITY BILL"
Thanks again and good luck!

GERMAN ALBERTO

Thank you, GREGORSAMSA, for all the nice things you said about my little short. And thank you for the kind offer of hospitality if I ever come to Columbia!

I actually don't think it looks bad. The only problem that seem to jump out at me is that it feels like the characters are standing a bit lower than ground level. I marked a few places where I think it's most obvious. however, if the courtyard they are standing in is supposed to be sunk in like that, than everything is looking pretty good to me! What problems are you seeing with this? (I am at work, and didn't spend a bunch of time looking at it, this was just my very quick first impression).

I just looked at it again, and maybe they are fine. Maybe with those things I have marked removed, it would look fine.

Hi Hype!..Thank's a lot!...hmm...I really don't now..it's not just the floor...I think it is the Lens as well...Check out the leftbuilding...nor the prespective or the distorsion looks like the prop Newpaper stand...
Is it just Me?

Anotherthing....check out the distances between the character and the extras...and then check out the distance between the character and the left building..Don't you feel something strange going on?

This example can be a good way of learning for everybody!..That I think is very cool. I would want to encourage everybody to judge and check out what is wrong with the comp...sometimes I feel That it's just me that's going sicko.

Good luck Hype...take care...Thank yo ufor you help..really...

GERMAN

I agree that the perspective on the left definitely looks out-of-whack, but you can see by the placement of those 2 tracking X's on the wall where the 3D tracker got it's information. They look pretty in line with the wall of the 3d model you made. Perhaps the bluescreen was tilted slightly back, and not standing up at 90 degrees?

As for the extras in the middle, I'm ok with their size. If you draw a line from where their feet are touching the ground over to the left wall, you can tell that a doorway there would be proportioned relatively close to what it should be. I think the extreme distance of the building directly behind her is giving the illusion that she is wrong in space. The bottom of that far background building comes up to her elbows. I don't think that would look as weird if you could see the road lined with cars going all the way back there.